Jonathan's Discussion Questions for Sept. 20, 21
For this week's discussion, please take a close look at the article by James Axtell, "The White Indians of Colonial America." Using evidence from this article, please identify some major differences between Native American society and colonial European society. In what ways might these differences cause conflict? If you were a colonist faced with the decision whether or not to integrate into Indian society what decision would you make?
posted by Jonathan Jones at 10:43 AM
28 Comments:
The Native American society and the colonial European society were significantly different. It was interesting to ready "The White Indians of Colonial America" because of the number of cases that captives of the European society when captured, decided to stay with the Indians. They would especially like to capture women and children so that the women could have babies and the Indians could raise them in their culture, and the children could be raised Indian as well. The Indians were more woman based raising, where women and men were almost treated equal. There was no real "father figure" and the women did almost as much work if not more than the men. As opposed to the European society which sort of looked down on women, they did no work except raise the family. There might be conflict among the two groups just because of the Indians taking so many captives, and them wanting to stay with the Indians. If I were a colonist deciding whether to integrate into the Indian society I think I would. The Indian society to me seemed very pleasant where women didn't seem to be treated badly at all, they weren't raped or anything because the darker you were, you had more "beauty." So I think life in the Indian society wouldn't be bad at all.
It seems as though the Indian lifestyle would be much more ideal for women and young children because of the fact that Indian culture made them more equal to their adult male counterparts than European culture would allow. Though the women's work was hard and outside, it is not significantly harder than the work they would have to do stored away in their European households. To add on to the freedoms of women, commitments were more in women's favor in the Indian culture. In Europe, men could entertain more than one woman even after marriage, while a woman would be shunned or worse for any sign of adultery. The Indian culture allowed the women to "wear the pants" in the relationship. If i were a woman, which I am not, I would stay with the Indians. However, as a man I would prefer the European culture on the grounds that the Indians were looked upon as savages, and their lives were not of value to Europeans. For my own safety, I would stay European. Conflicts between these two cultures would be trying to assimilate back into one culture, after living in another. From the strict social laws of European culture to the relaxed, but hard working Indians would be very confusing for anyone.
According to James Axtell’s, “The White Indians of Colonial America,” the English thought that the Indians would want to confirm to the ways of their society. In their minds Indians were considered savage and uncivilized. The fact is that there are just simply differences in their cultures. Some differences include housing, farming techniques, politics, language, religion, ways of raising children, and the role and structure of the family. These differences lead to conflict because the Europeans wanted the Indian society to confirm. Personality, I would whether live in the European style of living. I find the way they live more like the way I live. I could not take being a dad and not being the father figure in my child’s life. Although both societies differ from today’s traditional norms, I feel I would most be suited to live in the European way.
The Indians literally lived off the land and used every resource possible, so nothing went to waste. They hunted for dinner, and farmed the fields-two bizzare concepts for the Europeans. In addition, since the Indians did not have a structured government or religion, the Indians were viewed as "barbaric" and "uncivilized." The Europeans were more refined and organized with religion, government, and family life. Both the Indians and Europeans had two entirely different cultures. Their differences and the skirmishes between the two groups of people led to conflict. Personally, I think I would enjoy living with an Indian tribe. I liked how everyone equally contributed to the community, and things seemed more relaxed. In addition, women were treated with more respect. In all, I feel that the simplicity of the Indians' life was very rewarding.
The Indians and Europeans were almost opposite in their way of lifestyle. The Indians raised their children and allowed them to go out and learn on their own rather than forcing them to do things, which is what the Europeans did. The Indian women and the captured women were treatd better and more equal than in European customs. Europeans thought that the Indians were making their women work too hard in the fields, but in contrast, the work tht Europeans had their women do inside the house was just as hard, if not harder. Another difference is that European fathers were in control of every aspect of their family, but the Indian fathers had very little say in their families. In Indian traditions it was usually the wife's brothers who had most of the control. All of these differences lead to conflicts because when the Europeans came into the native lands they wanted the Indians to confirm to their religions and social traditions.
The Europeans and Indians had very different lifestyles. One of the biggest differences was in the treatment of females and children. Indian women were thought of just as highly as Indian men. They were trusted with duties such as farming. They weren't looked down upon or degraded by the act of the original sin. European women were only trusted with small tasks inside the home. They were also forced to cater to their husbands and obey them as they were kings. Another big difference between the two was that Europeans treated their father figures as kings and saw them as the leader. Indians didn't have father figures. The difference in these aspects of their lifestyles could cause conflict. If I were a European faced with the decision whether or not to integrate into Indian society, I definitely would. That could be just because I'm female. My decision would be based off how much more respect Indian women receive as opposed to European women.
A major difference that I noticed was the treatment of the women and children. The main point was that the Indians INVOLVED them in their culture much more than Europeans did. Although the women did have to do more strenuous labor than in the European society, the Indian culture included women in decision making. The extra labor allowed for more of a voice, instead of being inferior to men in the European culture. In some instances, the treatment of children by the Natives would be considered harsh, like the story of John McCullough and when he was forced by his adoptive uncle to dive in the freezing water to "make him hardy". However, this was to make him a strong Indian, and by involving him in their culture, it made John want to make them proud. In the European culture, children were just thought of as evil, and they had little to no relationship with their father. Therefore they had no one to impress and no one who cared about their personal accomplishments. This could be why children took so easily to the Native culture, they were accepted and appreciated.
This would cause conflict because the Europeans were so in to the father being the leader, and the idea that women and children were inferior. With all the "benefits" of the Indian culture, the European women and children might want to just convert, and that would screw up the white people's society. In the reading it lists numerous examples of people who wanted to stay with the Indians after they were returned to "civilization", and the colonists just couldn't understand why they would chose "savagery" over a "superior" society.
If I had to chose between the European society and the Native American culture, I would definately choose to live with the Indians because I would like to wear skimpier clothing. Just kidding, but seriously I would want to be involved in a culture that would allow me to have an influence on it. This would give more meaning to my life, rather than just cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the kids. The Natives allowed the women freedom of choice in many things, including marraige, and I would favor that to being set up with some random person that was chosen for me. Bottom line is, I would want to have a say in what went on in my life, and I would be willing to do a little manual labor to achieve that.
The Indian and European cultures very diffrent in many ways. First the father was the king of his household in European culture. Were as the Indain children saw there father more as a friend then a child rearier. The child rearing was left up to his uncles of his mothers family. Women were treated better in Indian culture. They were the heads of the household and were looked up too. Were as the European women were looked down on. There religions varied widely by European believed in god and the indains saw Nature as a holy spirt. Women did farming were men did the hunting in indain tribes. If I was captured by the indians I would choose to stay with them on the basis of they seemed to live a much more peaceful life.
There are many differences between the European and the Native American cultures. Obviously, the two cultures have much different views on religion, with the Indians not having the idea of "original sin" like the Europeans do. The two cultures also had different views on the treatment of women and children. The children weren't supposed to keep silent or stand unless told to sit like in European society. The women had a larger voice within the community in an Indian tribe, and were shown much more love and respect than in European society. Perhaps the biggest difference was that the Indians were much less prejudice against the whites than the whites were against the Indians. A tribe would adopt a white and love him/her as one of their own, but a white community could not fully accept an Indian. This type of society would look pretty good to women and children who didn't know any better, and even adult males from the poorer end of white society. This would cause conflict in that Europeans wouldn't understand why they couldn't convert Indians but Indians could convert whites. If I wasn't very well of in my European society, I would seriously concider living with an Indian tribe.
The European culture and the Indian culture were different in many ways. First of all the fathers in the European culture were supreme and were looked up to, while in the Indian culture there were not really fathers just mentors Another difference was in the religious aspect. Indians did not believe in god but the Europeans did.
The European colonist were much different than the indians becasue in their society men were at the top of the family. However in the indian society every was treated just as equal as the next as long as they pulled their weight. Some of the conflicts could have been that the Europeans forced their ways on the indians such as Christianity. If I were to choose which society I would have lived in it would have been the Indian society, because they were hard workers that looked down at no one in their tribal community.
The differences between the Native American society and the colonial European society very vast. The women that were captured by the Natve American's were treated almost equally as the men were with work and everyday life, unlike the European society which looked down on women and children. The Native American charished the adoption of "children of both sexes and young women." The conflict between the two societies probably came from the English who were captured by the Native Americans chose to stay with the Native Americans while the Native Americans who were captured by the English and raised from childhood by them would return and stay with the Native Americans after only a brief stay. The english were probably appaled to the idea that the Native American society could be viewed as "better" than there own. If I were a colonist back then i probably would join the Native Americans because I have always enjoyed the outdoors, and everyone in their society gets respect.
We can identify many differences between Native Americans of the time and Colonists of the time. Everything about their society was different, the women were treated equal to men and in some cases they even had more control than men. Children were shown love and affection rather than being force into submission by their fathers. The Native Americans worked together as one unit rather than working to better only ones self. The tribes were rich in culture such as song and dance. The Natives always treated anyone they captured very well; many times better than the Europeans were treated in their own communities. If I were faced with rather or not to integrate would depend on rather I had a family or not, I would never abandon my family, but if I was a single man and captured, given a better life, then of course I would assimilate to their culture.
There are many difference between the Indians and the Colonial European society. The Indians were tradtional. They wore habits and rough skins. They would hunt, fish, and farm for their food. The Native americans treated their captives nicely. The Native americans worked as one.well the european's were mean. The Indians society was a huge family were people were treated equal and kind and the the Chief was the father but was a good to his children.
On the other hand your have the European society that wanted to convert everyone to christanity. They were well educated in english and in other fields. The European society was not use to the having to work for their food idea. They forced their children to bow down to their fathers.The worked indivualy.
Conflicts between the two would be started because European society wanted to convert everyone to christianty and they wanted to educated everyone in english where the native americans wanted to stick with their own beliefs and also did not want to learn english.
Another conflict would be caused by the fact that the Europeans didnt know how to make their own food and some didnt want to when they could trade with the indians and get the food they want. This causes conflict because of price and because of european's being greedy and taking over land and farming.
If i was an European colonist i would not integrate the indians i would let them practice what they want to practice and go on with my own beliefs.
The main difference between native american and european sociey was the role religion played in daily life. While native americans had belief systems and important rituals, europeans had a much stronger dedication on a daily basis to their religion and were much more fanatical. They believed that it was their duty to bring everyone into christianity and that people who weren't christians were to be dispised. Native Americans did not go out and actively try to convert others to their belief system. I belive if I were a european colonist i wouldn't want to integrate into the Native American way of life because in those days europeans were so trained to look down on "heathens" like natives.
Indians and Colonists are diffrent in almost every way. Indian cutlure let their women talk and speak on what they had to say. Indians were like a tight knit community and they were nice to one another always. Most of them wanted to make peace with the settlers and become allies with them. Colonist were power hungry, they just wanted to take over every piece of land. They would fight the Indians with force, they took everything from them. In the movie we watched today in class the natives talked how they were fighting for nothing, because they had nothing left. The conflict caused from thier diffrences were mostly because settlers felt the need to fight and take things from the Indians. They had no choice but in the end to fight back. They had to defend themselves after so much killing and hurting of their own people. I would never have touched the indians society. They were here before us, i would have been open minded to them or at least i would like to say that, but the truth is, who knows how people thought back them. If you are raised in a colony that hates indians you might grow up to hate indians. It is a tough arguement but as myself today i would have been open to them. If i lived back then i do not know how i would have acted. My answer is on the fence because i can not say for sure exactly how i would have felt towards indians in that era of time.
The main difference between the Native Americans and the Europeans was their faith, Europeans were sent to the Americas to “redeem the savage souls”. The English didn’t understand why the Indians would ‘ve wanted to live the way that they did, even after being exposed to English life. When English would push their beliefs on the Indians, that’s when it would cause conflict. Another difference among the two cultures was the role of women. While looked down upon and made lesser in the English society, women were almost equal with men in Native American society because of their role in having and raising the children. This was why many European women and children chose to stay in the Native American culture. If I had the choice to integrate into an Indian culture, I believe, being a women, I would take it! I would get much more respect and have much more power in that society rather than in the European society.
The Native Americans and colonial European societies had many differences. The way in which they both viewed things were very different. The beliefs in religion were different along with the way that they governed their societies. These things may cause conflict because the Europeans were trying to force their own beliefs on to the Native Americans this would cause them to most likely feel offended and cause a conflict with them. The Europeans thought that the Native Americans were savages so with them wanting to change their ways to better go along with the Europeans beliefs of following God’s word; this would cause anger between them.
If I were faced with the decision to either go with the Native Americans or colonists I would go with the Native Americans. The Native Americans were more of a free society compared to how the colonists were. The colonists were too strict about how things should be done. The Native Americans also seemed to have a good way of life and they were able to provide for themselves quit well.
-Jessica Walter
There are many differences betweent the two societies. The Native American women did alot more than the european womean. The Native American women did as much if not more work and hunting then the men did. The european woman bearly even got to open there mouths. In one of the readings, it talks about how there were so many europeans captures that they dicided to stay with the Native Americans. The conflicts between the europeans and indians were brought on by the europeans because they attacked the indians and the indians had to defend themselves. If i was a colinist back then i would of probley tired to understand more about them before i attacked them and if i liked them i wouldnt attack them.
European and Indian culture were very different. The two biggest differences I see are the treatment of women, and the role of fathers. First off, women, in Indian culture, were actually involved in the family. Many women were considered the head of household as opposed to the European way of fathers ruling everything. Many times, women would be the key decision maker in the family. Also, women were allowed to speak their opinions during village meetings. Secondly, the role of fathers is very different in the Indian culture compared to that of European culture. Most often, fathers in Indian culture were seen more of a family friend rather than a fatherly figure, while in European culture, fathers ruled over everything in the household. From birth, children were taught to obey every thing the father ordered them to do.
This could cause conflict because the European men would expect to be obeyed whenever they gave a command, but, because of Indian culture, most often the command would not be obeyed and the European man would start a violent conflict.
If I were faced with the decision whether or not to integrate into Indian society, I would integrate because their society seems to promote equality rather than having on single ruler.
The colonist came to the "new world" for a number of different reasons. Some came because of poverty and religious persecution, while others came for the promise of gold and land. Still others claimed that they were trying to promote the Christian religion. The colonists settled on the Indian’s land and took advantage of their natural resources. The Indians were willing to trade with the colonists and maybe live in harmony but the colonists cared only about gaining wealth and prospering in the new world. The colonists brought diseases and firearms that were harmful to the Indians and many of Indians died as a result of them. If I was a colonist I would have tried to make friends with an Indian tribe and live off the land with them. I know I couldn’t make it alone so I would separate from the colony and become an Indian learning their ways and respecting that they were here first.
In Native American society, women played a more active role in society. Not only did they care for the children but they also acted as hunters and gatherers, unlike in European society where women were thought to be feeble and useless. Native American women were also treated with more respect and had more of a voice within their society, and European women were treated lowly and lesser than men. Another major difference between both cultures was religion. Native Americans believed in a pantheistic religion while the Europeans were Christians. The Europeans belief was that their way of life was the "right" way to live therefore, missionaries felt they needed to go out and convert the "barbaric" Native Americans. This of course would cause conflict between the two societies. If I were a colonist faced with the decision whether or not to integrate into Indian society I wouldn't do it, mainly because I had already created a certain lifestyle I was accustomed to in Europe, and I wouldn't fancy living on the land.
Native American Society and English Colonial Society.The differences ran through almost every aspect of life. Religion, social roles, gender roles, family and government. The Patriarchal tradition of the Colonists was very different than the Native American tradition of more gender equality. For English Women in the colonies, there was very little freedom to do anything. Women were required by law to be submissive to their husbands. Native American tradition gave many rights to their women such as the ability to speak in public. They also had more roles in the bread winning. If I was faced with the option on converting to becoming a Native American or not would depend on my economic success. If I was able to provide to my family and all my needs were within my reach I would not convert. I would feel that I would cause much shame on my family. However, if I was very low on the social structure, the Native American way of life is a good way to go.
The most predominate difference between the Native American society and that of the colonial Europeans was how captives were treated. Most of the people who were captured by the Indians did not want to leave their adopted culture. In some cases these people even ran away from the English’s settlements to return to the Indian culture. This caused conflicts because it implies that the English culture really was not all that great. If a person is willing to leave “civilized” life to return to be with the Indians, it could make the English appear less civilized than the Indians. This would then be bad for the image of the English, which they seem to view as very important to keep high and prestigious.
If I had to choose weather or not to integrate into the Native American society I most likely would not. If the choice was to integrate or die then I would, but if it was a choice where I had free will I would not integrate. While I find the Native American society and culture interesting and intriguing I would prefer to just be a spectator of it instead of a participant.
~Jennifer Claybrooks
I feel sorry for the Native Americans. In "The White Indians of Colonial America," it talks about how the English were so egotistical they believed that the Native Americans would drop the beliefs that they had for many years and just automatically go with thier beliefs. The English wouldn't want to drop their beliefs on a dime, why would they expect other people to.I would not integrate into the Native American's culture. I would never want to give up a father figure in my life. It is horrible. I think that my life would best fit into an Englishman's style of living.
There were many differences between Native Americans and the European settlers. One of the major differences was the way that people treated one another. It seemed that the Native Americans had much more affection for one another in that they treated all members of their society with respect. The Native Americans may not have been as religious as the Europeans but they were very spiritual. They saw women as a of equal importance in their society as the men, which was not the way it was in the English settlements. We can also see how they treated people by the way that they treated their prisoners. The prisoners were integrated into their society, allowed to marry, and many of these prisoners stayed in the Native American villages after they were technically released.
If it ws me, I would probably lived with the Indians. I think there were less rules and less authority, both of which are things I have trouble with.
I think its interesting how in Native American's Society, a group of people looked down upon so much [women and children] are valued much more. They have a role in the community and are not shunned. With the number of people who were held captive and decided to stay in the culture, it makes you wonder if today there would still be people who would decide to stay with the indians, since ours has been liberated so much so.
I don't really know if I would stay with the Native Americans or not, it depends on how my life went back then. I would say I would stay with them, if I was treated better, but I don't like change all that much and thats a huge step to just leave what you were raised as; Which also brings up the point of how the whites thought the indians would be completely willing to change and go to their culture, and they wondered why there was so much rebellion and bloodshed.
Indians and colonial European have different culture each other, such as farming style, language, and politics, so they have many problems. For example, colonial European believes god, but India believes nature, and women and children of Indian obey men, and not English. This is just one of the many examples. Conclusion, Indian is become victim. My decision is that colonial European would respect Indian and share their different culture.
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